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Watchmen → Final Fantasy XIV → Turn 5 - Pre 2.1
 

Topic: Turn 5 - Pre 2.1

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Naru
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Turn 5 - Pre 2.1
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So we have ~2 weeks left before 2.1 comes out.  Who here still wants to get Turn 5 down before Coil becomes easy mode?

 

If you guys actually want to do this, I think we need to take a more structured approach to solving this fight.  Specifically:

1. We need to set attainable goals -

Instead of going into Turn 5 every time thinking that we're going to beat the fight, we need to set realistic concrete goals.  I think this will help us focus on improving in the right way and making sure that we don't get demoralized because of lack of perceived progress.  These goals should be centered around establishing consistency in the fight.  For example, instead of setting the goal as trying to get past dive bombs once, we should be focusing on getting to Dive Bombs 80% of the time.  Once we achieve that goal, we should be focused on everyone having a 90%+ dodge rate in the Dive Bombs stage.  Focusing on the wrong goals lowers morale and stymies true progression.  We don't get anywhere closer to beating the fight if we get lucky and make it past dive bombs a single time.  We need to be able to consistently get to later stages of the fight so we can practice new mechanics.

 

2. We need to stop blaming RNG for wipes -

This is a PvE fight and barring bugs (which should be widely known by now) everything in the fight happens for a reason.  If we wipe in Phase 1 because a liquid hell hits Kam as he's casting a spell, we can make an adjustment and have the off tank call out when liquid hell is about to spawn.  In response Kam could make sure to use his Swiftcast or Surecast to cast his heals during those times.  If we wipe in Phase 2 because our virus rotation is screwed up by a conflag, I need to be popping bigger cooldowns to compensate.  If the timing for Conflags and Fireballs are off, we need to record and review the fight to understand why this happened and how we can adapt to the situation in the future.  None of this is fun, but it's absolutely essential to establishing consistency.

 

3. We need to review raids and hold people accountable -

Liquid can probably speak to this as he's had significant experience with playing sports at a high level.  Reviewing replays and breaking things down to their component parts is essential to learning how to improve.  Here, we need to stop worrying about offending each other and really nail down why it is we're wiping.  If we only get to dive bombs 5 out of 10 times, we should be looking over recordings to figure out why.  If the problem is our strategy and approach, we need to make adjustments as a group.  If the problem lies with a single individual, they need to figure out exactly how they can improve.  If they can't improve, we need to be able to replace them without worrying about hurting their feelings.  I believe everyone here is mature enough to accept objective evidence of their shortcomings.  If someone in the FC can't do the fight, we need to be able to replace them with the understanding that it's not personal and we simply want to progress.

 

Honestly this won't be fun.  Raiding this way is going to feel more like work and less like playing a game.  At the same time, I don't see us making progress without doing something drastically different than what we're doing right now.

It's up to you guys.  Who here actually wants to put in the work to down this  bitch?



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Naru
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One other thing. We now have 24 people in this FC and most of them are capable of doing Turn 5 (lets not discount people on the basis of gear until we test it out). There is no reason we shouldn't be in Turn 5 at least five days a week as an FC. Instead of worrying about who's in what group, we should set up a schedule of times and have people sign up for when they would be interested in doing Turn 5.

Synergy is important, but once you understand the fight mechanics it's really not that hard to swap people in and out. We do Titan with a wide mix of people in this FC and I'm pretty sure we could run Turn 1-4 with any mix of players from all three groups right now. If we really want to get this down, lets hunker down and get in there for 40-50 hours as an FC and really learn this fight.

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Kamdus
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Naru wrote:

One other thing. We now have 24 people in this FC and most of them are capable of doing Turn 5 (lets not discount people on the basis of gear until we test it out). There is no reason we shouldn't be in Turn 5 at least five days a week as an FC. Instead of worrying about who's in what group, we should set up a schedule of times and have people sign up for when they would be interested in doing Turn 5.

Synergy is important, but once you understand the fight mechanics it's really not that hard to swap people in and out. We do Titan with a wide mix of people in this FC and I'm pretty sure we could run Turn 1-4 with any mix of players from all three groups right now. If we really want to get this down, lets hunker down and get in there for 40-50 hours as an FC and really learn this fight.

 I have to disagree. The reason we haven't gotten further than this is because we keep switching up our roster. When we bring a completely new person they either lack knowledge of the fight or the gear to handle the fight or the knowledge of how our specific group handles the fight, sometimes all three. Even when we bring other people in the FC there are gaps in gear, knowledge, or group synergy. If we only have 2 weeks to do this then we need to go hard. And imo that means maximum consistency. We need to go in with the same team, every time. That way there are no surprises when it comes to our dps, heals, tanking, or person X's knowledge of the fight. It's like shooting, you find a shooting position that's comfortable and works for you, it doesn't matter what it is, but you have to shoot that way every time. If you shoot from the same position every time, hold the weapon the same way every time, control your breathing and trigger the same way every time, then the only variable is the weather. But if you're constantly changing or adjusting how you fire it's never going to work.

 

I agree with everything else though. It seems like 75% of the time we wipe it's in the conflag phase. It's either because of something buggy or someone does something too late. Everyone needs to have their game face at all times. I think if we're going to go for 3 hours then we need to utilize breaks more, and people need to do something that will help them refocus and get their mental fortitude back up, like listening to music or something. Take a 10 or a 15 min break every hour so people can get their focus back, because it's about quality of time more than quantity.

 

Also, chatter and jokes during an attempt are distracting. Between attempts is all good but once we pull it's just too much. I don't know how many things other people have to pay attention to, but I have to pay attention to my CDs, my aetherflow, raid health bar, the boss's cast bar, Naru's buff bar, my cast bar, my mana, the area above my head, Eos's position, who Eos is healing, and I have to mentally keep track of virus rotation, and be ready for the next phase of the fight. Any noise that doesn't need to be there just hurts concentration. It's also dangerous, since the shit can hit the fan at almost any time, and if something needs to be called out, mumble needs to be clear.

But no, this is definitely not fun, but it's also super challenging PvE (which doesn't come around often.... or ever) and I'd love to be able to say I've done it. 



-- Edited by Kamdus on Thursday 5th of December 2013 04:08:55 PM

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Naru
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With regards to consistency, I agree that a consistent group is definitely optimal for progression.  That being said, if we can only get 6 hours a week with a locked roster but we can expand to 40 or 50 hours a week by shifting the roster around, which approach will clear Turn 5 first?

 



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Kamdus
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The best people with the best gear, who play together enough to know how the group's going to work as a whole, and who know the fight. Even if all people in the FC are on the same level as far as gear, skill, and knowledge (I'm an asshole for saying but I doubt it), there's still the composition issue. Dragoons buff party damage, and when Karla wasn't there our dps took a dive. How many other compositions would we have to get used to? Healing wise it's not gonna work without a whitemage, but you probably don't want to take two of them. Bards are a must for mana regen. Two monks doesn't seem like a good prospect to me.

 

Like I said I think quality of time is more important that quantity. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

 

But honestly it doesn't matter to me. I want to try hard T5, but I'm not going to be heartbroken if we don't make it, so I'm not going to fuss over it :)



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Krom
Watchman
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I'm willing to sub in any day you guys need me, as long as Group 3 has already cleared 1-4. I'll try to schedule early in the week so anybody in group 3 could help out if needed.

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Shin
Xinika the Omnispawna
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Naru wrote:

It's up to you guys.  Who here actually wants to put in the work to down this  bitch?

 Me, let's go Fri, Sat, Sun from 9 - 11 pm per day



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Zabuza
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I'm willing to go as hardcore as we need to until we finally down turn 5 once and for all.



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Tear
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Sure, i'll go ham. Starting tonight?

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Shin
Xinika the Omnispawna
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ya @ 8pm to 1am

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Total Eclipse
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Let the killing commence :P

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