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Topic: Operative / Scoundrel Q and A

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Lion
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Operative / Scoundrel Q and A
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I forgot, DPS Scoundrels can cleanse all snares and that there isn't a cooldown on my zero energy, unlimited range Tendon Blast not to mention that the remainder of my stuns don't add to the resolve bar whatsoever resulting in my completely locking down... I can't even finish. These devs are so laughably out of touch with the actual game. I don't think any of them play Scoundrels/Operatives.

 

They're trying to put this class into roles that it isn't designed to fufill.


10/10.



-- Edited by Lion on Monday 16th of July 2012 02:28:25 PM

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Lion
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The first is a gimmicky trick which categorically will not work against a rated team in that the moment you open up on somebody, stunning them or otherwise they will call out what is happening on vent.

 

Orbital Strike: 3s cast time, 30 energy, interruptable and limited radius.

Grenades break awe, blind, etc.

Cleanse is only physical or tech, which I already do if I'm not expending all of my energy DPSing somebody.

Dodge is a glorified cleanse.

Cover is sparse and using it completely removes the already limited mobility we possess.

1v1 doesn't have much of a place in a objective based, team play WZ.

 

Our burst damage has not scaled as well as other classes in the past few patches, which is fine because what we ultimately need is some kind of group contribution ability (+team armour pen?) or sustained DPS ability/spec to remain viable. 

 

There is nothing that a DPS spec Scrapper can do other than offheal that another class cannot do and more often than not better.

 

Edit: Cover is useful for a roll to speed boost when it doesn't bug out.



-- Edited by Lion on Monday 16th of July 2012 05:06:56 PM

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Kamdus
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The arguement of stealth as a gap closer is completely negated by the fact it's part of your opener. Killing assassins as a scrapper is borderline impossible. You open up with your knockdown they trancendence and if necessary sprint away. IMO they need a sprint like rogues in WoW.

 

The 'ole sleep n' cap does not work except against the dumbest of asses.

 

EDIT: Meant Resilience not Transcendence



-- Edited by Kamdus on Monday 16th of July 2012 09:12:06 PM

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Lion
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Bebbelboo wrote:
Lion wrote:
Shinarika wrote:
Lion wrote:

If there's no viability for certain specs or ACs then they should probably be fired.

 Remember, you have a healing tree that's borderline "the best".aww

 If they want us to be healers then what is the point of having two other trees that perform way below standard?

 and what other class is not going thru the same problem? Sentinel Focus tree suck, Command Assault suck, Tele and Balance Sage suck, Balance and Infiltration Shadow suck, Vanguard Tank and Tactics suck. I can go on but i think u get my point, you have a tree that actually does not suck so use it. Everyone has these problems you are not alone.

 

So I should play how Bioware's poor design planning is trying to force me to instead of how I want to? Okay, that sounds like it's worth a monthly subscription fee.

 

edit: typo



-- Edited by Lion on Monday 16th of July 2012 06:40:55 PM

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Shin
Xinika the Omnispawna
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Coldin: Every class who fights primarily in melee range (Assassins, Warriors, Powertechs) gets some kind of ability they can use to close the distance outside of 30 meters. That is except for Operatives. What's the reasoning behind the Operative's apparent lack of ability to quickly get within range to deal their most powerful attacks?

Austin: In PvP, the short answer is a combination of stealth (including Cloaking Screen), the ability to self-cleanse, and the ability to self-heal. Operatives also benefit from a good deal of control with snares, Sleep Dart, Debilitate, and Flash Bang, with additional roots, snares, and knockdowns available in skill trees. However, those things don't offer much benefit in boss fights that demand a high level of mobility and target switching. The question for us becomes one of how to best introduce a "fix" for a few encounters without dramatically impacting gameplay in other game modes or environments. That's a much longer answer, and something of an ongoing discussion. High mobility fights and encounters with a lot of target switching are proving to be fun ways for our Operations designers to challenge players. So with that theme keeping up, this issue is quickly floating to the top of our priority list.

 

/Discuss



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Shin
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Lion. 1-10?

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Panzerfaust
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the problem is that to fix certain classes or specs is its not always about numbers and theorycrafting some AC's just dont have the same usability as others. Which can probably only be fixed by changing/adding new skills or talents which isnt gonna happen until they release their "expansion" LOL.

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Lion
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If there's no viability for certain specs or ACs then they should probably be fired.

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Panzerfaust
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cant argue on that

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Shin
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Lion wrote:

If there's no viability for certain specs or ACs then they should probably be fired.

 Remember, you have a healing tree that's borderline "the best".aww



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Morehots
Watchman
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OMG..

You all look at damage meters too much.

This is something ONLY a scoundrel can do that is overlooked.

 

~ Go to a solo defender in Aldaraan or Novare coast or Voidstar

    A: Open up with a concussion grenade and immediately start capturing. The enemy will more than likely blow his anti cc ability(If not you will capture the objective)

    B: Soon as they break CC engage Disappering Act and then tranqshot them. (Tranq shot lasts 8 seconds if you can't break it. The longest sleep of any class. Shadow comes in second at 6 seconds.)

    C: IMMEDIATELY capture the target. Your 8 second tranq is long enough to even capture a hutt in Novare

     This might not work every time, hell, if it don't tendon blast them, and run away if you want or stay there and try to take them out.

 

besides that really OP bit of info scoundrel dps can also

~ Throw out a AoE that covers almost the whole capture area that keeps people from capping for 9 seconds. Yes sages can do a AoE that can do this too..but its channeled..a operativre can lay it down and go beat on people while it's doing its job.

~ Grenades with 6 second cooldowns..that can easily make enemy healers have to overwork when their teamates are grouped up..which happens alot in huttball..6 second CD and its instant..c'mon.

~Cleanse..you cleanse more things than any other class.. even as dps:P

~Defensive abilities that are  with only a 60 second and 45 second CD. These are great for burning down melee when you have too. Hell any class your assigned for that matter.

~You can CC without breaking cover. Great for camping reinforcement heals. You know..since the goal is too occupy them and make them take longer to get to the capture point. Wether thats CC'ing them or killing them. Hell letting you CC wear out and then killing them burns a great amount of time :P

~ You can almost solo anyone in a 1v1 enviroment. Perfect for people setting up in huttball. Don't say you can't either.

I really could go on and on..but none of this matters does it..all that matters is that a PT can do 800k in a WZ and you can't as a operative. WRONG. All the PT is doing is smash dpsing people that are respawning over and over and over again going to the same spot. You as a scoundrel can put out numbers doing this as well, just not as high.

Be what you are meant to be..a sneaky..deadly..full of tricks..tactical son of a bitch! Who cares what your dps is..if you kill the healer or a sniper..or the guy on the goaline..or ninja a tuirret..you are the hero. We win with guys or girls like you.

 

K..i'm done :P

 



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Lion
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Shinarika wrote:
Lion wrote:

If there's no viability for certain specs or ACs then they should probably be fired.

 Remember, you have a healing tree that's borderline "the best".aww

 If they want us to be healers then what is the point of having two other trees that perform way below standard?



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Lion
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It's even worse if you use SF -> BB and during the long animation time of BB they pop Resilience. That's easily countered by holding off on BB until they spam it but still, if you fall into that trap that's probably a lost fight.

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InariOkami
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this just in, the ability to self-heal is an effective gap closer

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Okay, regardless of how low your class may seem. (And believe me, I know low, look at where MY class is) You have to play like no other. I am deeply under the impression that a Scrapper Scoundrel is IRREPLACEABLE for what they can do. Yes, you cannot burst like a PT. Yes, you die faster. However, you have other tools that make you quite useful. You can pick and pressure key targets vital to the setup of a group. You can act as a serious disruptor. Not to mention, YOU HAVE STEALTH!

I really didn't appreciate stealth for a while but now I'm realizing just how much of a bonus it is. The enemy team cannot see you coming, unlike a Powertech. Yes, they are overpowered and broken but a Scrapper's role is definitely nothing to scoff at. Just think on a more positive and hopeful note. I was feeling extremely discouraged about my class and honestly, my damage is pathetic. However, I've come to terms with realizing what my role is. (through many other Shadows, especially Nahlia, telling me to try something different) Even Relent made me realize that perhaps I could try something new.

So I did, and here I am playing Balance for you all in ranked. Does Balance do good damage? Not really. Is the ramp up time good? It's horrible. It's also unbelievably squishy. However, my role isn't damage. I'm out to be the staller and most annoying pest you will find on the field. All I'm saying is to be open minded and make it work, regardless of whatever gutter you think your class is in.

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Bebbelboo
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Lion wrote:
Shinarika wrote:
Lion wrote:

If there's no viability for certain specs or ACs then they should probably be fired.

 Remember, you have a healing tree that's borderline "the best".aww

 If they want us to be healers then what is the point of having two other trees that perform way below standard?

 and what other class is not going thru the same problem? Sentinel Focus tree suck, Command Assault suck, Tele and Balance Sage suck, Balance and Infiltration Shadow suck, Vanguard Tank and Tactics suck. I can go on but i think u get my point, you have a tree that actually does not suck so use it. Everyone has these problems you are not alone.



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HavocM
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Just heal and you will leap 30 m noobs.

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InariOkami
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Bebbelboo wrote:
 and what other class is not going thru the same problem? Sentinel Focus tree suck, Command Assault suck, Tele and Balance Sage suck, Balance and Infiltration Shadow suck, Vanguard Tank and Tactics suck. I can go on but i think u get my point, you have a tree that actually does not suck so use it. Everyone has these problems you are not alone.

 Except sentinels have two other great DPS trees, commando assault I believe is what you meant to say is also fine, balance sages are fine, vanguard tank is fine, and assault is a much superior DPS tree. Balance and KC for shadows are also viable DPS alternatives. For Concealment/Scrapper OPs/Scoundrels you have what...Lethality/Dirty Fighting, a tree that IMO is even worse than Scrapper/Concealment?



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Kamdus
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Sorry, didn't realize we weren't allowed to complain. Please forgive us.

 

Also, I didn't realize staying on target with a gap closer was an issue? If you lose your target after charging them or sprinting to them you need to go back to WoW.

 

Agree the class is not useless. But the topic refers do gap closers, and if you think anything the dev said truely makes up for the lack of one you should play one of the other classes and tell me it's not a big deal.



-- Edited by Kamdus on Tuesday 17th of July 2012 10:44:32 AM

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Bebbelboo
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Kamdus wrote:

Sorry, didn't realize we weren't allowed to complain. Please forgive us.

 

Also, I didn't realize staying on target with a gap closer was an issue? If you lose your target after charging them or sprinting to them you need to go back to WoW.

 

Agree the class is not useless. But the topic refers do gap closers, and if you think anything the dev said truely makes up for the lack of one you should play one of the other classes and tell me it's not a big deal.



-- Edited by Kamdus on Tuesday 17th of July 2012 10:44:32 AM

 it is not the complaining i care for. It is where people are saying that ur class is useless and that is not true. I am more afraid of a operative coming to burst me than a deception assasin. No other class in the game can burst like urs so why are you talking?



-- Edited by Bebbelboo on Tuesday 17th of July 2012 11:17:38 AM

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Kamdus
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Did anyone here say scoundrels were useless? If you're looking for a place to lay down your strawman arguments the SWTOR forums can be found here: 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=76

 

Also I've pvp'd as a scoundrel healer, gunslinger, mara, and vanguard and I fear no operative. Their damage is based on a strong opener that is easily shut down, and once it is, they don't pose much of a threat, especially if you're good at kiting.



-- Edited by Kamdus on Tuesday 17th of July 2012 03:42:34 PM

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Shazaer
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Yeah, being able to cleanse the roots and snares of half the classes in the game sucks.  Also idk why I should have to manage a resource, isn't like anyone else has to.  I'm not sure why I'd eat a whole ravage when I have dodge available, cuz it's really only good for the cleanse. 

 

This class is not in that bad of shape.  Small tweaks are needed.  Staying on target is easier than half the classes with gap closers.  All we need is a small buff to sustained damage and we will be fiiiine.  (Im lookin at you, backblast cooldown and most recent sucker punch nerf.)  Restoring the armor pen lost on Flechette would be fantastic as well. 

 

Cover has limited uses, but you won't ever really appreciate it until you play a class without it.  It is invaluable to be immune to half the bullshit jumps/pulls in this game.  Even if a Scoundrel is only doing it for a heal.   Still think a talent to make sabo charge used out of cover would be ideal for ironing out some kinks in the pvp burst chain. 

 

Dirty Fighting isn't worth mentioning.  It's pretty clear that shit was designed for gunslingers.  Another awesome class, but they have more 'utility' right?  

 

Surprising amount of tears up in here.  Keep that shit in the Scoundrel forums where it belongs.  If you can't find your place in your ranked team, then you need to reevaluate yourself and playstyle.  Class got issues but it's far from useless.



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Lion
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Keep it where it belongs, like the discussion forum of my guild?

I don't understand who these people telling me how to play my class are, lol. I wasn't aware that I was in the presence of the MLG SWTOR Scrapper team.

Your arguments are invalid and you're grasping at straws. This class is not useless but it has been poorly managed and the one viable DPS spec does not have anywhere close to the viability or utility of any other DPS class' spec. That's the reality of this dying game, sorry brahs.

 Also making Sab Charge out of cover wouldn't really do anything but save half a GCD and probably the tiniest fraction of ground on somebody. it wouldn't iron out the wrinkles in my t-shirt. Ehl oh ehl Internet jokes. This is the only argument I choose to address because it's hilarious.



-- Edited by Lion on Tuesday 17th of July 2012 05:18:12 PM

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Shin
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We all have different views and opinions but let's try to keep it civil.smile



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Morehots
Watchman
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Question: What spec does the most damage.

Answer: Sawbones Rawrrrrr!

Someday if we ever get dual specs and I have a dps set built up..im gonna dethrone you Bloodcrazed..

j/k

OR AM I!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



-- Edited by Morehots on Monday 23rd of July 2012 04:11:18 PM



-- Edited by Morehots on Monday 23rd of July 2012 04:11:55 PM



-- Edited by Morehots on Monday 23rd of July 2012 04:13:39 PM



-- Edited by Morehots on Monday 23rd of July 2012 04:15:39 PM

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