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Topic: Vanguards Tanks: What you never expected

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Soultiger
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Vanguards Tanks: What you never expected
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I have revamped the build, decent discussion about it on the SWTOR forums.

For the longest time Vanguard tanks have been rendered "useless" in pvp due to our tanking tree specializing in shield which is all but obselete in PvP. However, what most people don't know is we have been doing it all wrong.

Vanguards Tanks specialize in 3 things:

1. Overall Flat damage mitigation

2. Highest HP's and Armor rating in the game

3. Highest Damage output for Tank class in PvP

 

All the talents we use for flat mitigation and armor are within the first 2-3 tears of talents. However, with a 41 point talent tree, what has been overlooked for the longest time is how "tanky" (real tanky) the Tactics tree is, and the high Yellow damage it has within melee range: Ladies and Gentlemen, I introduce to you, the "Soulguard" build:

13/28/0

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=573856

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/vanguard#12i28-d7fc8ce92-30

 

This build focuses on Extremely high damage output, while having the total MAXIMUM increase in flat/aoe damge mitigation: Some numbers

76% Armor increase

20% Accuracy debuff for ranged and melee attacks

7% (+5%) while combusted overall damage mitigation (cannot reach the additional 2% but worth it)

30% Flat AOE damage mitigation, which is increased to %60 percent if stunned or immobilized

25% Flat damage mitigation from Reactive shield

= Meaning a consistent 62%-97% reduction in Force leap/smash and infinite potential in flat damage mitigation

All damage in the Tactics Tree does "NOT" require the High energy cell to be active, meaning Gut, all elemental attacks, and High impact bolt will be utiziled to its FULL potential while tanking, allowing for effective close combat damage.

 

This build not only grabs all the ARMOR bonues, ENDURANCE bonues, and FLAT DMG MITIGATION bonuses from every tree, but is still grabbing EVERY vital tanking talent which does not use shield, and almost an entire DPS tree with full capability, and capitilizes on every strong point of the vanguard class while using the tanking cell (stance)

Please review and give detailed feedback, still debating gear types and set up for maximum capability



-- Edited by Soultiger on Tuesday 18th of December 2012 05:19:55 PM



-- Edited by Soultiger on Tuesday 18th of December 2012 05:34:51 PM



-- Edited by Soultiger on Tuesday 18th of December 2012 07:34:13 PM

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nick wars: the lonely republic
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I've put together a similar spec before - I always wanted to know how it would play. I have some constructive criticisms and questions, but I think it could be very viable. 

 

1) You're missing out on Storm, root on Harpoon, and root on stealth scan. You also miss out on a lower cooldown Cry Grenade and Harpoon. Do you think the loss of utility is worth it? 

 

2) You miss out on some Ion Cell ammo management - if you try it in practice do you run dry more often? 

 

3) Do the elemental damage attacks hit sufficiently hard in Ion Cell? I know the talents don't require High Energy Cell to be active to work, but it is a nice 5% damage boost. I'd be inclined to think the DR, armor, and ability to Guard in Ion Cell is more worth it, though. 

 

4) It seems a shame to get that far up in the Tactics tree and not get the surge bonus to Stockstrike. Don't know how you'd fit that in without going full Tactics though. Would you consider just running full Tactics in Ion Cell to be a viable alternative? Something like: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/vanguard#2028-9d7fc8ce92-30

You'd still get the armor bonus from Shield, all you lose is the Aim bonus and Smoke Grenade. Just curious as to your  thoughts on this. 

 

5) Hold the Line! seems awesome for ball carrying, but the 8 second immunity doesn't apply to stuns or mezzes. Do you think having Storm would be better for Huttball?

 

Nice looking spec, that's all I've got for now. Keep it up!



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Soultiger
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Good questions:

1. Storm and harpoon can be useful utility but are ultimately gap closers, and with the amount of damage we are normally not able to defend against since we have no defensive cooldowns and lack of performance and damage up close, the flat mitigation trumps it in almost every way.

2. Still testing but a lot of damage being based on "free procs" has helped.

3. You are correct, Dr, amor, and guard will outperform the extra 5% dmg.

4. Stock strike while very viable does not gain any of the tactics tree focus on "elemental" damage, which why I did not talent it also in the assault tree. Gut and High impact (though gut is not elemental) should outshine stockstrike in the build.

5. If running a ball the normal cc breaker, in conjuction with the shield also breaking stuns should suffice.

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nick wars: the lonely republic
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Nice response.

 

1. Would you consider having mobile respec and swapping between rounds/games? Seems like there might be certain WZ's/phases of WZ's where you'd rather have Storm and Harpoon Root (Huttball, Civil War) where having the AoE DR and higher damage might be more useful in others (Voidstar, NC, AH)? You could use the same gear even, just swap specs real fast. Just a thought.

 

2. Yeah, I thought that might be the saving grace. That gut proc is solid.

 

3. Mreah.

 

4. Stockstrike does still hit pretty hard, but I suppose you skipped all of the talents for it. If you got fire pulse though, the surge on that and ion pulse would be pretty nice to have damage-wise, wouldn't it? Fire pulse is nice and cheap too.

 

5. Yeah, I think you're right on that. Your build should be a really nice backup ball runner, or at least intermediate runner (from a fire pull ---> opposite side of map, toss to Shadow/Guardian).



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Soultiger
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Haha the swtor forums are ripping it up but they seem to feel a lack of damage makes it unuseable missing the whole point of the mitigation aspect. Ohh well to be expected, the price you pay for theory crafting outloud. It works though, wish i had a full gear set to grt the full effect.
Funniest part its only 3 points away from some cookie cutter spec. In short 3 points switched around is blasphamy lol. Id post this there. But cant log in without my authenticator. Its far from finished but funny the reaction. Should be fun to show them up though haha

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nick wars: the lonely republic
Shin
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Just go for it. If it works, it works. If it doesn't - ahh well. Lots of options for you to choose from if you have two toons : ).

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Shin
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Moved to the appropriate section.

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Glassjaw
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http://watchmen.activeboard.com/t50144827/a-whole-guide-for-a-whole-guardian/

lold

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Shin
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Glassjaw wrote:

http://watchmen.activeboard.com/t50144827/a-whole-guide-for-a-whole-guardian/

lold

Still stickied!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=509647

You... should go over and say hi sometime!



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Glassjaw
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Shinarika wrote:
Glassjaw wrote:

http://watchmen.activeboard.com/t50144827/a-whole-guide-for-a-whole-guardian/

lold

Still stickied!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=509647

You... should go over and say hi sometime!

Meh, I'm kind of over that whole thing.



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"if actions speak louder than words, then I'm the most deafening noise you've heard"
Shin
Xinika the Omnispawna
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Glassjaw wrote:
Shinarika wrote:
Glassjaw wrote:

http://watchmen.activeboard.com/t50144827/a-whole-guide-for-a-whole-guardian/

lold

Still stickied!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=509647

You... should go over and say hi sometime!

Meh, I'm kind of over that whole thing.

 Wha?



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Glassjaw
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Shinarika wrote:
Glassjaw wrote:
Shinarika wrote:
Glassjaw wrote:

http://watchmen.activeboard.com/t50144827/a-whole-guide-for-a-whole-guardian/

lold

Still stickied!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=509647

You... should go over and say hi sometime!

Meh, I'm kind of over that whole thing.

 Wha?

Just don't feel like being in the spot light/answering questions. Just want to chill and play this game casually, at least for now. Maybe once I get perfect gear again I'll update it but for right now I'll just be a random player.



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"if actions speak louder than words, then I'm the most deafening noise you've heard"
Shin
Xinika the Omnispawna
Status: Offline
Posts: 2184
Date:
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Glassjaw wrote:
Shinarika wrote:
Glassjaw wrote:
Shinarika wrote:
Glassjaw wrote:

http://watchmen.activeboard.com/t50144827/a-whole-guide-for-a-whole-guardian/

lold

Still stickied!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=509647

You... should go over and say hi sometime!

Meh, I'm kind of over that whole thing.

 Wha?

Just don't feel like being in the spot light/answering questions. Just want to chill and play this game casually, at least for now. Maybe once I get perfect gear again I'll update it but for right now I'll just be a random player.

 oksmile



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Glassjaw
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Anyways... so, Nick. How's that Assault tree been treating you? lolololololololololool

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Soultiger
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Haha Assualt is pretty damn good but EXTREMELY boring.....I have not given up on my personally crafted build. Tested it out last night and was utterly surprised.

The "overheating" issue is non-exisitent, in fact, out of all the builds ive played full tank/assault/hyrbid it has the "best" heat managment as someof the most expensive and hard hitting abilities/dots are often proc'd free.

Need more tank gear but last night i took the average of 3 games with 70% recruit tank gear and and some of the warhero assault gear and pulled 165K protection and 200K dps........

"Hold the Line" is like a watered down version of force sprint/resilience together. The speed increase is only 30% but the immunity makes amazing to make a quick interrupt or run a huttball in the back field.

My only concern was 2 Major things:

Shock Abosorber talent clarification- Do they stack 30+30 it seems like it while stunned it just includes all sources insted of just aoe by 30%

Does Fire damage/slime count as AOE?





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nick wars: the lonely republic
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Shock Absorbers does reduce damage from everything by 30% while stunned, and another 30% against AoE all the time. I don't know if those stack additively or multiplicatively, though (60% against AoE while stunned or 51% against AoE while stunned). 

 

Tested, fire/slime does not count as AoE.



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