WATCHMEN

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Watchmen → Shadow / Assassin → Infil/Deception designed to NOT be a teamplay spec
 

Topic: Infil/Deception designed to NOT be a teamplay spec

Page 1 of 1  sorted by
Shin
Xinika the Omnispawna
Status: Offline
Posts: 2184
Date:

Infil/Deception designed to NOT be a teamplay spec
Permalink Closed

BobertCole: Could you elaborate please on what role you see deception Assassins playing? Are they close to operating in the way that was envisioned?

Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer): First, as to whether or not they're operating close to what we envision, the answer is "depends who the operator is." From the videos, logs, and anecdotes players provide us, it's really very much the answer for all specs - some people "get it" and play it to its potential, and some people don't. Frequently, the ones who "don't" are hitting brick walls because their expectations for what a spec should be like or should be capable of are different than what the spec is designed for.

In the case of Deception Assassins, we see and hear about a lot of players expecting to go toe-to-toe with tough enemies. They expect that since they're a melee spec, they should have the survivability they need to withstand the frontlines. That's true for some melee specs, but that's not what Deception Assassins were designed for. Deception should epitomize "hit-and-run" and "lone wolf" gameplay. Obviously that's less the case in Operations boss encounters, but if this is a question of sustained DPS, the short answer is that they hit within the same 5% "grace window" targeted by every DPS spec in the game.

In solo and PvP environments, Deception is meant to be a high burst, high mobility, shutdown spec. When played properly, they provide some of the highest burst and highest pressure in the game. However, Deception is not a great partner. He can't take hits, his shutdown requires that he set the pace of the fight, and his escapes leave allies open and vulnerable to counterattacks. I say that, but I've seen players dash my expectations and turn Deception into a spectacular teammate. Unfortunately, I've seen many more players try to facetank and fail. Assassins have a great team support role - Darkness; they also have a great well-rounded, high utility role - Madness. We left Deception to take the opportunity to do something fun and very different, but that comes with the risk of missing player expectation. If you like Deception and you want to pull it off, my suggestion is that you pick your fights and plan ahead, but I'd also warn that Deception is a spec of extremes - I would not describe it as "well-rounded."

 

/Discuss



__________________

Everyday is a day to celebrate
HavocM
Watching
Status: Offline
Posts: 15
Date:
Permalink Closed
I really do not even know what to say about that one. I understand the design but it is completely contradictory to endgame PvP. Assassins and Shadows have seen better days.

__________________
Shin
Xinika the Omnispawna
Status: Offline
Posts: 2184
Date:
Permalink Closed
Zetsuma wrote:
Shinarika wrote:

Scuse me guise. I am entitled tew be a "lone ranger"

 Here I thought you went balance.

And let me translate what I read!

"Deception assasins suck in ranked warzones. kthnxbai."

What's the point of only being able to win 1v1 when you are probably not going to see much of that.

I guess it would be good to burn down a healer quickly? Though if he is guarded... Yeah...

Well, I dunno too much about the shadow's spec, been balance on my alt the entire time, and he is not even 50 yet.

 I play whatever is needed. Though we knew infil was the most useless team spec, to hear a dev come out and openly admit this is both infuriating and disheartening at the same time. Both our DPS specs are behind the target marker of 5% damage ratio. We're 10-15% behind. We rightfully should be buffed based on their design philosophy.



__________________

Everyday is a day to celebrate
Glassjaw
Manhattan
Status: Offline
Posts: 836
Date:
Permalink Closed
Glad I got off the Shadow/Assassin train when we were OP :P

__________________

"if actions speak louder than words, then I'm the most deafening noise you've heard"
Kamdus
Manhattan
Status: Offline
Posts: 643
Date:
Permalink Closed

"It's suits a lone wolf playstyle"

 

"But I've seen people play them well on teams"

 

"Pick your fights and plan ahead"

 

Did he really say anything at all? Is there a class that does not have to plan ahead?



__________________

On your deathbed, you will not wish you played more video games.
Shin
Xinika the Omnispawna
Status: Offline
Posts: 2184
Date:
Permalink Closed
Scuse me guise. I am entitled tew be a "lone ranger"

__________________

Everyday is a day to celebrate
Zetsuma
Newling
Status: Offline
Posts: 2
Date:
Permalink Closed
Shinarika wrote:

Scuse me guise. I am entitled tew be a "lone ranger"

 Here I thought you went balance.

And let me translate what I read!

"Deception assasins suck in ranked warzones. kthnxbai."

What's the point of only being able to win 1v1 when you are probably not going to see much of that.

I guess it would be good to burn down a healer quickly? Though if he is guarded... Yeah...

Well, I dunno too much about the shadow's spec, been balance on my alt the entire time, and he is not even 50 yet.



__________________
InariOkami
Watching
Status: Offline
Posts: 22
Date:
Permalink Closed
i've always thought there's no point in bringing a deception/infil assassin when there's:
pyrotech/assault PTS/VGs- i shouldn't have to explain this one
Carnage/combat maras/sents- much higher burst, minimal setup, more survivability, and a lot more...
Darkness/KC sins/shadows- the only justification for a deception/infil is for stealth, and darkness/KC does that and brings much more utility.


__________________
Shin
Xinika the Omnispawna
Status: Offline
Posts: 2184
Date:
Permalink Closed
I wonder what the infil fans have to say about this one.

__________________

Everyday is a day to celebrate
Lion
Manhattan
Status: Offline
Posts: 507
Date:
Permalink Closed
Why is this spec even in a team based game where sustained DPS is king? Why would they purposefully design something to be so completely contradictory to how the game is played? These dudes are out of touch. Also infil = scrapper scoundrel.

__________________
Neo
The One
Status: Offline
Posts: 174
Date:
Permalink Closed
I read this as a good thing..lone wolf type players are needed.. they can shift the flow of battle simply by entering and taking out the most important person.. I am not saying it is the best spec, but every spec/class has its use, just a matter if you are using it right.

__________________

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
Kamdus
Manhattan
Status: Offline
Posts: 643
Date:
Permalink Closed

A class with a loosely defined role can be a good thing. Like an ace up the sleeve type deal.



__________________

On your deathbed, you will not wish you played more video games.
Mace
Watcher
Status: Offline
Posts: 266
Date:
Permalink Closed

Since when do designers have any idea how pvp works anyway?



__________________
InariOkami
Watching
Status: Offline
Posts: 22
Date:
Permalink Closed

when they all rolled powertechs/vanguards

Mace wrote:

Since when do designers have any idea how pvp works anyway?

 



__________________
Shin
Xinika the Omnispawna
Status: Offline
Posts: 2184
Date:
Permalink Closed
Neo wrote:

I read this as a good thing..lone wolf type players are needed.. they can shift the flow of battle simply by entering and taking out the most important person.. I am not saying it is the best spec, but every spec/class has its use, just a matter if you are using it right.

 Except this logic is flawed because KC is simply a better 1v1 spec.



__________________

Everyday is a day to celebrate
Mace
Watcher
Status: Offline
Posts: 266
Date:
Permalink Closed
Shinarika wrote:
Neo wrote:

I read this as a good thing..lone wolf type players are needed.. they can shift the flow of battle simply by entering and taking out the most important person.. I am not saying it is the best spec, but every spec/class has its use, just a matter if you are using it right.

 Except this logic is flawed because KC is simply a better 1v1 spec.

 Theoretically Infil has about the highest burst in the game...but it probably does need a bit of attention. Not a lot, but some.



__________________
Shin
Xinika the Omnispawna
Status: Offline
Posts: 2184
Date:
Permalink Closed
Mace wrote:
Shinarika wrote:
Neo wrote:

I read this as a good thing..lone wolf type players are needed.. they can shift the flow of battle simply by entering and taking out the most important person.. I am not saying it is the best spec, but every spec/class has its use, just a matter if you are using it right.

 Except this logic is flawed because KC is simply a better 1v1 spec.

 Theoretically Infil has about the highest burst in the game...but it probably does need a bit of attention. Not a lot, but some.

 Well, that was the case when Project would hit roughly the same time as Breach.disbelief



__________________

Everyday is a day to celebrate
Mace
Watcher
Status: Offline
Posts: 266
Date:
Permalink Closed

Still a ton of potential burst in 2-3 globals.



__________________
Shin
Xinika the Omnispawna
Status: Offline
Posts: 2184
Date:
Permalink Closed
Mace wrote:

Still a ton of potential burst in 2-3 globals.

 That's if it's not dead or forced to vanish within that time frame. Also, after those globals are done... now what? Or you don't kill your target?



__________________

Everyday is a day to celebrate
Malikai
Watching
Status: Offline
Posts: 10
Date:
Permalink Closed
Mace wrote:

Still a ton of potential burst in 2-3 globals.

And how do you compare Pyro PTs? They have more burst and defense. Assassins have what? Stealth? It does not add up.



__________________
Panzerfaust
Watchman
Status: Offline
Posts: 69
Date:
Permalink Closed
dont get me started

__________________
HavocM
Watching
Status: Offline
Posts: 15
Date:
Permalink Closed
Malikai wrote:
Mace wrote:

Still a ton of potential burst in 2-3 globals.

And how do you compare Pyro PTs? They have more burst and defense. Assassins have what? Stealth? It does not add up.

 Bro you always have the option to reroll



__________________
InariOkami
Watching
Status: Offline
Posts: 22
Date:
Permalink Closed

 Bro you always have the option to reroll

This. Unfortunately, by the time they buff infil, you can have a PT in full war hero already. And something tells me even buffing infil will put it nowhere close to PTs/Vangs.



__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
 
Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse 		Powered by ActiveBoard