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Topic: Infil/Deception designed to NOT be a teamplay spec

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Xinika the Omnispawna
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Infil/Deception designed to NOT be a teamplay spec

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BobertCole: Could you elaborate please on what role you see deception Assassins playing? Are they close to operating in the way that was envisioned?

Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer): First, as to whether or not they're operating close to what we envision, the answer is "depends who the operator is." From the videos, logs, and anecdotes players provide us, it's really very much the answer for all specs - some people "get it" and play it to its potential, and some people don't. Frequently, the ones who "don't" are hitting brick walls because their expectations for what a spec should be like or should be capable of are different than what the spec is designed for.

In the case of Deception Assassins, we see and hear about a lot of players expecting to go toe-to-toe with tough enemies. They expect that since they're a melee spec, they should have the survivability they need to withstand the frontlines. That's true for some melee specs, but that's not what Deception Assassins were designed for. Deception should epitomize "hit-and-run" and "lone wolf" gameplay. Obviously that's less the case in Operations boss encounters, but if this is a question of sustained DPS, the short answer is that they hit within the same 5% "grace window" targeted by every DPS spec in the game.

In solo and PvP environments, Deception is meant to be a high burst, high mobility, shutdown spec. When played properly, they provide some of the highest burst and highest pressure in the game. However, Deception is not a great partner. He can't take hits, his shutdown requires that he set the pace of the fight, and his escapes leave allies open and vulnerable to counterattacks. I say that, but I've seen players dash my expectations and turn Deception into a spectacular teammate. Unfortunately, I've seen many more players try to facetank and fail. Assassins have a great team support role - Darkness; they also have a great well-rounded, high utility role - Madness. We left Deception to take the opportunity to do something fun and very different, but that comes with the risk of missing player expectation. If you like Deception and you want to pull it off, my suggestion is that you pick your fights and plan ahead, but I'd also warn that Deception is a spec of extremes - I would not describe it as "well-rounded."

 

/Discuss



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Watching
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I really do not even know what to say about that one. I understand the design but it is completely contradictory to endgame PvP. Assassins and Shadows have seen better days.

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Xinika the Omnispawna
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Zetsuma wrote:
Shinarika wrote:

Scuse me guise. I am entitled tew be a "lone ranger"


 Here I thought you went balance.

And let me translate what I read!

"Deception assasins suck in ranked warzones. kthnxbai."

What's the point of only being able to win 1v1 when you are probably not going to see much of that.

I guess it would be good to burn down a healer quickly? Though if he is guarded... Yeah...

Well, I dunno too much about the shadow's spec, been balance on my alt the entire time, and he is not even 50 yet.


 I play whatever is needed. Though we knew infil was the most useless team spec, to hear a dev come out and openly admit this is both infuriating and disheartening at the same time. Both our DPS specs are behind the target marker of 5% damage ratio. We're 10-15% behind. We rightfully should be buffed based on their design philosophy.



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Manhattan
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Glad I got off the Shadow/Assassin train when we were OP :P

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Manhattan
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"It's suits a lone wolf playstyle"

 

"But I've seen people play them well on teams"

 

"Pick your fights and plan ahead"

 

Did he really say anything at all? Is there a class that does not have to plan ahead?



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Xinika the Omnispawna
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Scuse me guise. I am entitled tew be a "lone ranger"

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Newling
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Shinarika wrote:

Scuse me guise. I am entitled tew be a "lone ranger"


 Here I thought you went balance.

And let me translate what I read!

"Deception assasins suck in ranked warzones. kthnxbai."

What's the point of only being able to win 1v1 when you are probably not going to see much of that.

I guess it would be good to burn down a healer quickly? Though if he is guarded... Yeah...

Well, I dunno too much about the shadow's spec, been balance on my alt the entire time, and he is not even 50 yet.



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Watching
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i've always thought there's no point in bringing a deception/infil assassin when there's:
pyrotech/assault PTS/VGs- i shouldn't have to explain this one
Carnage/combat maras/sents- much higher burst, minimal setup, more survivability, and a lot more...
Darkness/KC sins/shadows- the only justification for a deception/infil is for stealth, and darkness/KC does that and brings much more utility.


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Xinika the Omnispawna
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I wonder what the infil fans have to say about this one.

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Manhattan
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Why is this spec even in a team based game where sustained DPS is king? Why would they purposefully design something to be so completely contradictory to how the game is played? These dudes are out of touch. Also infil = scrapper scoundrel.

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Neo
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I read this as a good thing..lone wolf type players are needed.. they can shift the flow of battle simply by entering and taking out the most important person.. I am not saying it is the best spec, but every spec/class has its use, just a matter if you are using it right.

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Manhattan
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A class with a loosely defined role can be a good thing. Like an ace up the sleeve type deal.



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Watcher
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Since when do designers have any idea how pvp works anyway?



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Watching
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when they all rolled powertechs/vanguards

Mace wrote:

Since when do designers have any idea how pvp works anyway?


 



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Xinika the Omnispawna
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Neo wrote:

I read this as a good thing..lone wolf type players are needed.. they can shift the flow of battle simply by entering and taking out the most important person.. I am not saying it is the best spec, but every spec/class has its use, just a matter if you are using it right.


 Except this logic is flawed because KC is simply a better 1v1 spec.



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Watcher
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Shinarika wrote:
Neo wrote:

I read this as a good thing..lone wolf type players are needed.. they can shift the flow of battle simply by entering and taking out the most important person.. I am not saying it is the best spec, but every spec/class has its use, just a matter if you are using it right.


 Except this logic is flawed because KC is simply a better 1v1 spec.


 Theoretically Infil has about the highest burst in the game...but it probably does need a bit of attention. Not a lot, but some.



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Xinika the Omnispawna
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Mace wrote:
Shinarika wrote:
Neo wrote:

I read this as a good thing..lone wolf type players are needed.. they can shift the flow of battle simply by entering and taking out the most important person.. I am not saying it is the best spec, but every spec/class has its use, just a matter if you are using it right.


 Except this logic is flawed because KC is simply a better 1v1 spec.


 Theoretically Infil has about the highest burst in the game...but it probably does need a bit of attention. Not a lot, but some.


 Well, that was the case when Project would hit roughly the same time as Breach.disbelief



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Watcher
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Still a ton of potential burst in 2-3 globals.



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Xinika the Omnispawna
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Mace wrote:

Still a ton of potential burst in 2-3 globals.


 That's if it's not dead or forced to vanish within that time frame. Also, after those globals are done... now what? Or you don't kill your target?



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Watching
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Mace wrote:

Still a ton of potential burst in 2-3 globals.


And how do you compare Pyro PTs? They have more burst and defense. Assassins have what? Stealth? It does not add up.



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Watchman
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dont get me started

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Watching
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Malikai wrote:
Mace wrote:

Still a ton of potential burst in 2-3 globals.


And how do you compare Pyro PTs? They have more burst and defense. Assassins have what? Stealth? It does not add up.


 Bro you always have the option to reroll



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Watching
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 Bro you always have the option to reroll


This. Unfortunately, by the time they buff infil, you can have a PT in full war hero already. And something tells me even buffing infil will put it nowhere close to PTs/Vangs.



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