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Which hybrid do you think has the most potential for group play? [2 vote(s)]

18/0/21+2
0.0%
23/0/17+1
50.0%
28/0/13
50.0%
Some random hybrid infil/balance build
0.0%
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Shadow spec discussion

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My curiousity has been piqued regarding a hybrid KC/Balance spec, and I am wondering about everybody's thoughts on the subject.  I have a few specs in mind:

18/0/21+2 -- This would be a high-energy version of the traditional balance pvp spec

Interesting tradeoffs include 30% surge on Force in Balance + DOTs vs 30% more energy, as well as Sever Force vs Mind Over Matter (snare removal and +2s duration on resil).  Some choices in each tree could be moved around based on opinion.  KC could trade 2% endurance for 4% defenses (a very tough decision, imo), and Balance seems fairly locked-in.

I am not entirely certain where the best spot for the last 2 points would be.  Purely damage-wise (not considering positioning and procs), those points would go in to Infiltration Tactics.  However, I have reservations about that.  It both increases reliance on accuracy in gearing and complicates an already proc-based build.  I would not particularly mind keeping shadow strike off my bar.

Another slightly less desirable damage option would be putting those two points in Twin Disciplines.  This opens up some interesting options, and while Project should be used as situational burst in this build, it would not be a staple of dps for the most part.  However, a 10% buff to melee damage would make Project useful at the beginning of an engagement, and when you think you can take an opponent to sub-30% with it to refresh the 10% buff for a Spinning Strike.

The last option is one that is hard to put a real value on, though there is no debating that it is valuable.  2 points in Shadowy Veil (as shown in the linked spec) would increase armor by 30% in Force Technique.  Obviously, this is fantastic for survivability.  Mathematically, though, I would have to check to see how it compares to a simple 2% damage reduction from all sources (via Jedi Resistance).

 

 

23/0/17+1 - A more traditional hybrid spec favoring KC ahead of Balance

Clearly KC has a lot of advantages for pvp.  It has the ability to do some particularly awesome controlled burst, it has good battlefield control, and decent survivability.  Plus, Guard is sexytime for healers or squishy dps.  Spinning Kick out of stealth is stellar, auto-crit Projects with Upheaval are devastating, and Force Pull is hugely annoying for other teams.

Some thoughts on this spec:

-How worth it is Kinetic Ward?  I know 15% shield chance is nice, but I find myself using it pretty exclusively against very specific abilities/opponents.  Bounty hunters doing unload, marauders, and the occasional sniper are about the only times I actually spend the force to activate my ward.  It just does not seem to be of value otherwise.  I suppose 1 point for utility is something that should strongly be considered, but it feels underwhelming in a PvP environment.

-Containment vs Harnessed Shadows:  this build lacks self-healing almost entirely; the only self healing available is from Battle Readiness and the tiny procs of Combat Technique.  Additionally, it would be a build that is relegated to spamming Double Strike (albeit at +50% surge), and using Project/Force in Balance on CD.  This makes me question if the instant CC + stun of force lift is worth losing a particularly damaging ability with a large self-heal attached.  My inclination is, as part of a premade with good healers, it would be worth dropping Harnessed Shadows.

-Slow time is something that is easy to undervalue.  2 solid targeted AOEs makes holding objectives a breeze, and the damage and debuff from Slow Time are nothing to overlook.  5% damage reduction and an AOE slow, with crits that can approach 2k in an AOE environment...I hesitate to go this far up the KC tree without picking up Slow Time.  On the upside, the 30m range on Force in Balance is potentially ridiculous, and it still hits pretty damn hard.  Probably harder.

On the whole, for this build, I feel the draw of the balance tree is an instant CC and nicely ranged AOE.  It would be a rather simple, powerful spec to play, but it would probably be underwhelming compared to full KC.

 

I am curious if others have experience with either of these hybrid specs, or slight variations thereof, and what their thoughts on the subject are.  I may feel saucy at some point and just start messing around with them, though I think for the second spec I would get a little sick of Double Strike.



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Shield me already

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Thoughts after 1 night of 18/2/21 and 18/0/23:

-2 points for armor is about 4% mitigation in pvp gear. However, the spec is generally squishy enough that, while appreciable on paper, it didn't increase longevity noticeably. Moved the 2 points from infiltration to Twin Disciplines.

-LOVE the double strike damage. It frequently crits for upwards of 3500, 4k with a power relic activated. I can also pretty much do it ad nauseum.

-Force in Balance is freaking sweet. My priority system is still getting worked in to habit a bit, but its lovely to see this ability hitting for upwards of 2k on multiple targets. Crit aren't as powerful as I had hoped, but without speccing 31 balance I suppose my expectations should be lower.

-Force Technique Force Breach feels really ****ty unless Battle Readiness is up. 3700-ish over 18s, really? I mean 7k+ is totally baller, but it feels dirty using a global on this unless I am out of melee range, project is on CD, and FiB is on CD. I'm quite certain its a dps increase, but it sure feels blegh (technical term) in pvp. It probably feels worse because most fights arent running the full 18s.

-Mind crush is awesome. That is all.

-I barely touch telekinetic throw, unless I am kiting a Marauder. Bad/good? I am not sure yet.

-Energy is a complete non-issue, almost to the point of being too much. It makes me question the pvp value of spending 18 points in KC. However, when I am free to dps, the amount i can crank out without stopping for a saber strike is borderline ridiculous. I was initially concerned about twin disciplines being less useful because project is expensive, and there are a fair amount of things to spend force on. That was foolish; I can spam whatever the **** I want. Projects fit in nicely after Mind Crush procs.

-This is an incredibly frustrating spec to play if your latency spikes at all. Lack of a consistent snare as melee, particularly after being used to it for the entirety of my experience in this game, is gross. I have had to compensate with being more careful with positioning, CD usage (sprint in particular), and ability choice. Latency or not, it certainly lacks control compared to KC.

-Burst is very mediocre. Granted, the sustained damage is definitely higher than combat, and is nothing to sneeze at, but the lack of big crits on projects via potency, and the lack of 30% surge on DOTs and FiB makes nothing really hit ALL that hard. There is just a ****load of stuff hitting constantly. This makes it a pretty damn good healer pressure spec, between needing to cleanse debuffs and simply deal with a decent amount of dps.

-I underused instant force lift for a while, but now I spam it. It rules. Probably the best reason to go this far in to Balance.



Overall, very nice dps spec, but it feels like a PvE spec with a hint of pvp flavor. Viable, but not optimal. Perhaps another day or two getting used to it will make it run a little smoother (260k+ in every game so far, without much spec familiarity and a lot of deaths). Sever force is probably worth speccing in to in a pvp environment instead of 30% energy, since pvp has its downtimes.

 

 

 

edit:  If I am going to be this squishy, why would I not just roll a Sentinel?  ... ugh.



-- Edited by Lucyford on Friday 23rd of March 2012 05:49:29 AM

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Lucyford wrote:

Thoughts after 1 night of 18/2/21 and 18/0/23:

-2 points for armor is about 4% mitigation in pvp gear. However, the spec is generally squishy enough that, while appreciable on paper, it didn't increase longevity noticeably. Moved the 2 points from infiltration to Twin Disciplines.

-LOVE the double strike damage. It frequently crits for upwards of 3500, 4k with a power relic activated. I can also pretty much do it ad nauseum.

-Force in Balance is freaking sweet. My priority system is still getting worked in to habit a bit, but its lovely to see this ability hitting for upwards of 2k on multiple targets. Crit aren't as powerful as I had hoped, but without speccing 31 balance I suppose my expectations should be lower.

-Force Technique Force Breach feels really ****ty unless Battle Readiness is up. 3700-ish over 18s, really? I mean 7k+ is totally baller, but it feels dirty using a global on this unless I am out of melee range, project is on CD, and FiB is on CD. I'm quite certain its a dps increase, but it sure feels blegh (technical term) in pvp. It probably feels worse because most fights arent running the full 18s.

-Mind crush is awesome. That is all.

-I barely touch telekinetic throw, unless I am kiting a Marauder. Bad/good? I am not sure yet.

-Energy is a complete non-issue, almost to the point of being too much. It makes me question the pvp value of spending 18 points in KC. However, when I am free to dps, the amount i can crank out without stopping for a saber strike is borderline ridiculous. I was initially concerned about twin disciplines being less useful because project is expensive, and there are a fair amount of things to spend force on. That was foolish; I can spam whatever the **** I want. Projects fit in nicely after Mind Crush procs.

-This is an incredibly frustrating spec to play if your latency spikes at all. Lack of a consistent snare as melee, particularly after being used to it for the entirety of my experience in this game, is gross. I have had to compensate with being more careful with positioning, CD usage (sprint in particular), and ability choice. Latency or not, it certainly lacks control compared to KC.

-Burst is very mediocre. Granted, the sustained damage is definitely higher than combat, and is nothing to sneeze at, but the lack of big crits on projects via potency, and the lack of 30% surge on DOTs and FiB makes nothing really hit ALL that hard. There is just a ****load of stuff hitting constantly. This makes it a pretty damn good healer pressure spec, between needing to cleanse debuffs and simply deal with a decent amount of dps.

-I underused instant force lift for a while, but now I spam it. It rules. Probably the best reason to go this far in to Balance.



Overall, very nice dps spec, but it feels like a PvE spec with a hint of pvp flavor. Viable, but not optimal. Perhaps another day or two getting used to it will make it run a little smoother (260k+ in every game so far, without much spec familiarity and a lot of deaths). Sever force is probably worth speccing in to in a pvp environment instead of 30% energy, since pvp has its downtimes.

 

 

 

edit:  If I am going to be this squishy, why would I not just roll a Sentinel?  ... ugh.



-- Edited by Lucyford on Friday 23rd of March 2012 05:49:29 AM


 

 

The issue with hybrid specs is that they are not supported. Original, but in the end not worth it. Our DPS specs are overshadowed by what sents can put out. There's just no reason to bring a DPS shadow when she can be KC and you get a sent for that DPS spot. It sucks but it's true :/... even DPS scoundrels have a better chance of locking a healer down than we do. There's just no reason to bring DPS shadows.



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Yeah, I have noticed I can put up very nice numbers, and 1v1's aren't terribly hard. However, the cost of doing that is fairly high, and probably isn't worth losing the ability to guard and insane survivability.

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So I went back to KC yesterday, but I think I should have taken some time to try out sever force (full balance) spec before going back to the tried-and-boringly-true tanky spec. I may spend some cash this evening and throw together a balance or infiltration spec and just go ape**** for a few games. Or I may keep working on my sentinel, since it seems they're still going to be the better choice after 1.2 for a blow-enemies-up dpser.

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